Z tego co czytałem, to Martin Wallace twierdzi, że prawa do Age of Steam należą do niego i nie wyraził zgody na żaden druk przez EGG ani wcześniejsze druki zlecone przez Winsome Games.
Jeden z postów Wallace'a na ten temat:
Spoiler:
I regard the new edition of Age of Steam as stolen property. There was never a 'real' license from Winsome to Warfrog. The 'licensed from... ' was favour to John to help big up Winsome, in the same way that John published Prairie Rails with my name on even though I never designed it. The game was never submitted to Winsome for publication, it was always designed to be a Warfrog game. John was paid to develop it, that is all.
Even if Winsome did own the license then there should also be a contract between Winsome and the designer. There is no such contract. Even if there was one the fact that Winsome have paid me no royalties for the design would mean they were in breach of contract. I'm sure John is never tired of telling people in private about the money I owe him but that's all in his head. After AoS was released Warfrog and John made an agreement to share the profits on Winsome designed maps. John later reneged on this deal and demanded 1 Euro per map printed, as well as more money for the second printing of AoS. As a third of each of the maps are still unsold that meant Warfrog losing money on them. However, we agreed a sum and I paid him all monies owed. He then came back the following year demanding more money - hence why we have fallen out. Please note that the original deal was witnessed. For some reason John cannot remember it.
Winsome has never had to risk money publising AoS yet wishes to claim it as its own design. Warfrog took the risk to publish it and yet is not regarded as the legitimate owner.
Now it gets even better. Not only does John find a company stupid enough to reprint Age of Steam but he also convinces them that he paid for the original artwork. Please note that the title boilerplate is from the original version. The copyright for this artwork lies with Warfrog, since they paid for the artist to do the work. FRED were told last October by another person that the artwork was copyright Warfrog but they ignored the warning. They did not even bother to email me to ask who the rights belonged to. Winsome has never paid for artwork - notice the use of covers that are in the public domain. I will be taking this matter further as copyright law is much more straightforward than trademark law.
As far as the trademark issue goes that's simply as case of not having enough money to see justice done. As John receives free legal advice he is always going to win on the grounds that the opponent does not have enough money to fight him. That does not mean he is the legal owner of the trade mark.
FRED are in receipt of stolen property. There has been enough discussion of the ownership of the game to warn them of the issues surrounding it. Instead of contacting me about this they chose to publish it without my knowledge, even though we have been in regular contact about other matters. You'd think a simple, 'hey, we're printing AoS' would not have been too difficult.
As far as I am concerned I want nothing more to do with FRED or Funagain, they being the same company, and am doing my best to terminate the existing contracts I have with them.
Sorry for ranting but I'm a bit brassed off about the situation. It used to be that companies did not behave in this manner, as the public reaction would bankrupt them, (see Hexagames as an example). Today it seems that some companies believe that it's OK to rip designers off.
Wygląda na to, że John Bohrer (z Winsome Games) miał odpłatnie rozwijać AoS, ale potem go sobie przywłaszczył (być może za zgodą Wallace'a, który nie wydaje się być ogarnięty biznesowo). Sytuacja, gdzie jedna strona ma rację "moralną", a druga "formalną".
Przekopując się przez te wątki, najbardziej mnie udrzyła chytrość Bohrera, co w ogóle mi nie pasuje do jego metod wydawniczych. Dla niewtajemniczonych: Winsome wydaje raz w roku pakiet trzech gier (wydanych najbardziej budżetowo jak się da*) w nakładzie 200 egzemlarzy, które rozchodzą się w ciągu 10 minut, a na rynku wtórnym osiągają bardzo wysokie ceny. Nie wiedzieć czemu (i teraz jeszcze bardziej nie rozumiem, wcześniej myślałem, że ma kasę gdzieś) nie zwiększa nakładu ani nie robi dodruków (choć czasem sprzedaje licencje większym firmom).
Co ciekawe Age of Steam jako znak towarowy jest zarejestrowane na Johna Bohrera a nie Martina Wallace'a, czy Warfrog/Treefrog.
Umowę na "rozwój" pomysłu Wallace'a sporządzono w taki sposób, że prawa do instrukcji wydania Warfrog ma Bohrer.
Na razie jedyne podstawne zarzuty dotyczą użycia przez FRED/Eagle loga Age of Steam wykonanego na zlecenie Warfrog w projekcie okładki 3 edycji.
Jeśli chodzi o dotrzymywanie umów Wallace nie jest do końca czysty:
Spoiler:
Eagle/FRED may not be your favorite publisher, for whatever reason, but they went over and above for Wallace, and let blatant indiscretions by him slide.
I think Wallace is a brilliant game designer, but that seems to be the only criteria here on BGG that carries any weight.
When Wallace stepped over the line by publicly denouncing FRED, how was FRED supposed to defend themselves other than by presenting the facts? There is quite a bit of emotion in many of those e-mail threads (and indeed a fair amount of opinion). But the facts remain:
Wallace needed a lot of money. Eagle paid him much more than is standard for three different board games, one of which Wallace hadn't even designed yet, for a substantial $50,000. A short time later Wallace resold the same rights to one of those games to Mayfair.
Wallace owed Eagle/FRED first right-of-refusal for the as yet designed game. Wallace has subsequently designed and published many titles, never once offering them to FRED.
When, once again Wallace needed cash, FRED bailed him out (at his request) by buying up his surplus of Brass.
When Wallace asked FRED to sell Mordred for the TSUK charity, they did so at their expense (shipping and handling the games). Wallace later told them to stop selling the games and to ship the remainder back to him (insisting that FRED foot the bill). FRED made no profit on the sale of those games. All of the money brought in on those sales was subsequently sent to TSUK by FRED.
Wallace has an ongoing dispute with John Bohrer for the rights to Age of Steam. John legally owns those rights (whether or not this is 'right'), and FRED legally paid John for the right to reprint the original game. This is what prompted Wallace to publicly defame and lie about FRED.
You can get angry at FRED for 'price fixing', but know that they have repeatedly, over many years, done the right thing for Wallace (at times bending over backward for him).
W skrócie:
Eagle Gryphon Games miało mieć prawo pierwokupu projektów Wallace'a, jednak Martin sprzedawał swoje projekty innym wydawcom bez prezentowania ich najpierw EGG
Wallace wziął kasę za projekt od EGG, po czym odsprzedał ten projekt Mayfair
Co ciekawe była podjęta mediacja pomiędzy Wallacem i Bohrerem przez profesjonalistę na sugestię Christiana Petersena, założyciela FFG. Sędzia przychylił się do twierdzeń Bohrera. :
Spoiler:
Regarding Mediation.
I should note that about 3 years ago, I arranged for a mediation between Mr. Wallace, and Mr. Bohrer on the Age of Steam issue. The mediator was none other than the honorable Dr. Franz-Benno Delonge, a German judge, and game designer himself. Unfortunately Mr. Delonge passed away a while after this has transpired (please purchase a copy of "Transamerica" in his memory.)
After much discussion and deliberation over several weeks, Dr. Delonge sided with Mr. Bohrer's claim.
However, Mr. Wallace decided that he did not care for the final decision, and chose to not abide by the mediation, despite the efforts and investment of both mine and Dr. Delonge's time, and a fair process.
I provide these fact to discourage both FRED and anyone here from participating in any mediation in such a dispute.
I don't have any interest in providing additional detail on this history, except to provide these facts as assistance to the parties involved in this painful process and as insight for any BGG member that is considering donating his time.
Co ciekawe była podjęta mediacja pomiędzy Wallacem i Bohrerem przez profesjonalistę na sugestię Christiana Petersena, założyciela FFG. Sędzia przychylił się do twierdzeń Bohrera.
Polecił go Petersen, który wydawał Steam Wallace'a.
Wydał grę u Winning Moves Germany i od nich Rio Grande Games i Winsome Games nabyło prawa do wydania angielskiej wersji.
Wallace i spółka jedyne argumenty jakie mają poza logiem na okładce wydania trzeciej edycji, to umowy słowne przy świadkach (współwłaściciel Warfrog i jego partner) oraz przekazywanie gotówki na Essen. John Bohrer ma za to "Copyright John Bohrer" w wydaniu Warfrog/Winsome i prawo do trademark. Nie wiemy w jakim stopniu zaawansowania była gra, kiedy trafiła na stół Johna.
Jeszcze w innym wątku ktoś napisał, że proponowano Wallace'owi pieniądze za wydanie trzeciej edycji przez EGG, ale ten odmówił, bo był kontraktem związany z Mayfair. Ciekaw jestem jak taki kontrakt wyglądał.
Według EGG Wallace sam im przyznał, że jego spór z Bohrerem został zakończony przez amerykański urząd patentowy na korzyść Johna. EGG zaproponowało pieniądze i umieszczenie jego nazwiska na okładce ale ten odmówił.
At Essen, Martin Wallace came to the FRED booth to discuss Age of Steam. He let us know he was unhappy that we were reprinting the game. He acknowledged that his legal situation with John Bohrer had been resolved, not in his favor, by the US Patent and Trademark Office. On the spot, we offered to give Martin both a design credit and pay him a royalty. Martin clearly and unequivocally refused both -- saying he did not wish to have his name associated with this edition of the game. While at Essen, FRED also met and spoke with our friends at Mayfair. We mutually agreed that the spat between Martin and John had been resolved as best it ever would be, and we mutually concluded, quite amicably, that the "right way" to proceed, given our mutual investments in the two productions, was to go forward with our respective releases and wish each other the best of luck. Which we did. This will be our only public statement as to Martin's comments, and the Bohrer/Wallace situation.
Cały czas się waham czy to wesprzeć. Raz, że boli mnie fakt pominięcia Wallace'a w tym projekcie a dwa, że 21$ za shipping to jednak masakra... Nigdy nie wpierałem niczego na KSie więc nie wiem, czy to standard czy nie, ale cena zaporowa.
Cały czas się waham czy to wesprzeć. Raz, że boli mnie fakt pominięcia Wallace'a w tym projekcie a dwa, że 21$ za shipping to jednak masakra... Nigdy nie wpierałem niczego na KSie więc nie wiem, czy to standard czy nie, ale cena zaporowa.
Standard to 14-16$
Zawsze można się z kimś zrzucić, obstawiam ze droga wysyłka bo ciężkie komponenty
Minimalnie większe. W pudle będzie więcej map i w lepszej jakości niż z obecnej edycji. A Wallace pominął się sam. Chcieli aby brał udział, chcieli mu też zapłacić.
Minimalnie większe. W pudle będzie więcej map i w lepszej jakości niż z obecnej edycji. A Wallace pominął się sam. Chcieli aby brał udział, chcieli mu też zapłacić.
Nie chcieli. Wykupili licencje od Bohrera i umyli ręce. Dopiero jak Wallace powiedział im na Essen, że nie wyraża zgody na ich edycję, zaproponowali mu pieniądze. Czyli EGG uznało, że Wallace jest (współ-) autorem Age of Steam, ale wystarczyło im, że kupili licencje od właściciela praw do istniejącej instrukcji i znaku towarowego.
Many of you have asked about compatibility between older maps (well over 100 of them exist) and this new edition. Ian has gone to great pains to insure that the scale of both this map and the old ones is the same. Obviously, there will be color "issues" but provided they don't bother you then yes, the new edition will work with the older maps, and we will gradually be issuing some of the older maps with the colors of this new edition.
1) Whatever disputes about Age of Steam that may have existed in the past have now been resolved to both parties’ satisfaction.
2) I will no longer dispute that Eagle-Gryphon Games (EGG) is the proper successor in interest to Eagle Games, the entity I signed a Purchase Agreement with in March, 2005 conveying various ownership rights to Age of Steam; Struggle of Empires; and a game to be designed at a later date.
3) I have conveyed whatever rights I might have in Age of Steam free and clear to EGG.
4) I will not dispute that EGG is the sole and exclusive holder and owner of the rights to Struggle of Empires, Railroad Tycoon (later named Railways of the World), and Railways of England and Wales (later named Railways of Great Britain) – games that I conveyed to Eagle Games.
5) I also give my permission to Eagle-Gryphon Games (EGG) to use my name in relation to the Age of Steam (AOS) game at EGG’s discretion (e.g., on the box cover; on the rules; in advertising and marketing including press releases regarding Age of Steam; and specifically in any Kickstarter campaign, updates, comments, etc.). I realize that they are under no obligation to use my name on the AOS box or otherwise and that is perfectly okay with me.
6) I will no longer speak or write ill of Eagle-Gryphon Games, in public or in private. I will write no more BGG threads or on any other similar forum negative comments about EGG, as I have no basis to continue to do so. EGG has agreed to reciprocate. In short, we are both ready to put this behind us and move forward with our respective projects.
7) I encourage everyone with an interest in the present Age of Steam Deluxe campaign running on Kickstarter to pledge and support that production and not to feel that some obligation to me prevents them from doing so.
Dobra wiadomość, bo miałem jednak opory przed kupnem.
Chcesz coś zamówić? Napisz PW. Mam 7% w 3trollach, 11% w Planszostrefie, 10% w Planszomanii.
Chętnych do grania w Summoner Wars w Szczecinie (turniejowo lub "ot tak") proszę o kontakt.
